“The Greatest Myths In Pilates History, Debunked” With Elaine Ewing

The following is the transcript and related links to topics and resources discussed during the the August 6, 2020 interview with Pilates Historian Elaine Ewing by Pilatay Managing Editor Tracy Belcher. (It is edited slightly for clarity/readability.)

Subscriber questions were collected the week prior to the interview. (Subscribe to pilatay.com here)

View the full video replay here in the @Pilatay Instagram Live archives.

Let us know what you think, and what additional “Pilates myths” you would like to bust or fact check in the comments below.

Tracy:

I first came across you and found your name somewhere in a facebook group when people were always asking about all of these kind of Pilates historical facts, and then they'd be going back and forth and then somebody would always say, “ask Elaine,” and tag you. Then you would pop in and have the answer! I was like, “Wait a minute, how does she know all of this?”

So Elaine, how do you know all this?

Elaine:

Well, I know what I know as of now, because we do learn things all the time, you know, that's part of the study of history, you learn things as you go and something new comes up, or you realize something that you thought was true wasn't true, right? So anyway, the things that I know now are basically from research. You know, lots of research and study, and also of course with my work with Sean Gallagher because he owns the archives and has Joe’s property. So our work together at Pilates at the Pillow has helped me and exposed me to a lot of that type of information.

Tracy:

What are the archives? I picture an old suspense movie and it's a dark warehouse and there's all these boxes … what exactly is it? What does it look Like?

Elaine:

The archives is a number of things.

It’s what Joe Pilates archived, right? … What he documented as far as what his method was about and what he wanted us to know as far as what his method was. And he documented in a lot of ways that are in the archives, like pictures, film, writings, audio recordings, his patents, his blueprints, his property, his apparatus, you know. So, it's basically everything that Joe documented in all the different ways.

As far as what we refer to now as ‘the archives,’ is Sean Gallagher's collection, which is the biggest collection in the Pilates community of Pilates historical things. … And then when Sean bought the property in Beckett, where we do Pilates at the Pillow, the archives expanded because now it includes the property and Joe's studio and that apparatus.

As far as where are the archives, they’re in a secure location that Sean owns.

Tracy:

Tell me a little bit of just about your background. I know you have Rhinebeck Pilates and you teach there. Can you tell us the cliff’s notes of how you found Pilates and started studying this.

Elaine:

I went to college in New York City. I went to the School of Visual Arts so I was studying hard, you know. I went to art school, and my dad was like, “You cannot make money being an artist.” And I was like, I don't care about money, dad, “I just need art in my life.”

So there I go, you know, to art school, and then I'm in school, and I was like, “okay, I need money, like now.” So I was like, “what can I do, you know, what job can I do, that I can still be an artist with my time, but then also work part-time and actually get paid some decent money per hour … I needed a part-time job. So, I was like, “I'll become a Pilates teacher!”

So while I was in school I became certified to teach Pilates — that was in 2000 — and that's how I came to Pilates. I mean, I used to do Pilates. I took Pilates classes. Then I was like, should I be a yoga teacher or a Pilates teacher? So that's why, yeah. I did do my art and Pilates like, half and half. I was an artist assistant, and I did all these things like that.

And then I just basically became Pilates full-time for a lot of reasons. But it turned out to be better for me.

Tracy:

That’s funny because I feel very comfortable with you. I feel like I've always kind of like, you know … I adore you, and I’m always like “Elaine! Elaine!” You know, and I used to work at an art museum. I was the director of marketing and communications there for a long time, and before that I was doing the PR and communications for artists. So I feel, like, maybe there's like a little bit of that kind of familiarity.

Yeah, that's funny. I never knew that about you. That's really cool.

So then you went on and got your teacher training …

Elaine:

Yeah, I did my teacher training at a small studio on the Upper East Side. And it was, you know, there's a teacher, her name is Jessie Zalla. I don't know if anybody knows her, but she's pretty well known in the City. She still teaches there.

And then after I did my training with her, I went on to study at Power Pilates. So I did a lot of workshops and classes, and all kinds of things there, especially with Bob (Liekens) and the other teachers who were there. And then moving on like, around 2013, I met Sean (Gallagher) at a workshop. He did a workshop in the City, and then I had him come to a workshop at my studio. And then I got really into his teaching, and I just started, you know, following him and taking his classes and his workshops, and then started teaching at his studio. I did his teacher training program, so I bridged into the New York Pilates Studio. And then we started doing our workshops together, and we came up with a concept for Pilates at the Pillow. And then you know, I started teaching there with him.

Tracy:

You really got into studying Pilates and became a history buff?

Elaine:

Yeah, I got into it. I mean I was into it, you know, in a way, because I had him come teach a workshop … The first workshop he taught at my studio was called “The History of Exercise” So, you know, I was interested and then he presented so much information, and I was like, “Wow, this is fascinating!” So I guess that piqued my interest. And then, as we continued designing the conference at (Pilates at) the Pillow, we had to do a lot of research for that — as far as all of the workshops — because there's a lot of information there. So it's fun, actually. It's enjoyable, you know, learning all that stuff as we go, and putting it all together, creating basically this body of work that's the historical presentation that we do.

Tracy:

Well, we're glad that you did all the work, and that we get to reap the benefits and get the story here!

So what do you come across most often that's like, a misconception or a myth? What do people think is true, and are surprised to find out is not?

Elaine:

Well, as far as ‘modern myth’ I think that the one thing I come across most often — I guess it's historically-based — but the myth that people are most often surprised to find isn’t true is that they think that you need to change Pilates, Joe's work, to meet the modern day person.

Like, (they think) people aren't the same as they used to be. You know, (they think) people now sit at computers all day, and they have a forward posture, and we shouldn't be doing flexion, and that's just a total misconception, historically.

I think that's the most popular misconception in Pilates.

If you really think about Joe's time, it wasn't like 500 years ago. It was less than 100 years ago. So, people sat at desks. You know, they typed on typewriters, they read books, they sat in their living room at night. There were the same things going on, just different things. There wasn't a computer or a (cell) phone ... It was something different, you know, that they were sitting in front of, right? So he talked about that, actually, in his writing, as far as like, who needs to do his method. And he mentioned those people. So it's really no different.

I think that that's one of the things I come across the most often — people thinking that's true and it's just not true.

Tracy:

Yeah. Okay, cool. So we got a lot of questions. We'll see how many we can get through … let's go ahead and get you through some of these questions.

So tell us a little bit about Joseph Pilates’ health as a child. Somebody says they “read the rumor that he was always a weak, sick child and through his method he got strong and healthy. Is this true?

Elaine:

Well, we know that he did say that all the time, right?

Throughout, you know, I would say like from the 30s to the 60s, we can read him saying in interviews that he was sickly child, which is probably true to an extent. You know, most children during his childhood time were sickly children. There were sicknesses, and there are lots of childhood sicknesses, so he probably was sick as a child, you know, off and on.

But at the same time, there were the physical culturalists around his time, like his competitors, right, in exercise, who are out there, (and) that was a common thing that they would say. “I was a sickly child, and I built up my strength, and now I am strong.” So that was, I guess, the catch phrase.

Although it probably is true, you know, to an extent.

But at the same time, he also said, “Never a sick day in my life.” Right? “Never an aspirin, never a doctor.”

So, you know, which was it?

I think that one thing he was great at, was the story, telling the story. I mean, we have to admit that he was pretty great at telling the story because we're still talking about his story today, right? And we're still talking about, “was he a sickly child?” So it worked. You know, it did bring attention to him and his method.

So that's what I think about that. It's probably true, but then again, you have to put it in perspective, historically.

Tracy:

So was Joseph Pilates really in the circus?

Elaine:

As far as I know, there's no documentation of that. There could be, you know, at some point, like I was saying, we do discover things all the time, right? But as far as I know, there's no documentation of it other than him saying that. So it's possible, but yeah, we don't know.

Tracy:

Did Joseph Pilates have a glass eye?

Elaine:

Oh yes. You can tell by the pictures.

Tracy:

When did he get it? Like how? Is there a backstory?

Elaine:

There are certain myths around that, and nobody knows for sure. But, as far as I've heard and read, the most likely way is that he was bullied as a child and lost his eye in a fight, as a child.

Tracy:

Oh my gosh!

Elaine:

I know can you imagine, like children! I know. It's like crazy that happening to a child, from other children. But, he did say that himself, that that's how it happened. And in an interview that his brother did, as well, he also said that that happened to Joe.

Tracy:

Oh, wow! Okay, interesting. That I did not know. That’s so sad!

Elaine:

It is sad!

Tracy:

So he got strong so he could defend himself, maybe?

Elaine:

That's his story, right? He said that. He said that basically shaped his life, and that he built up the strength to fight off bullies in the future. And then he became strong.

Tracy:

That’s actually very inspiring. Even as a child.

Elaine:

Yeah. Yeah, it is.

Tracy:

So tell us about, how many times was he married? so we know there's Clara. Were they married, and was he married before he met her?

Elaine:

I do believe they were married. Cathy Strack has done a lot of the research on that history. She's done a lot of research on that, and that's what she said — that she discovered that they were married, and as far as I recall, he was married twice before that in Germany.

Tracy:

Did he have any children?

Elaine:

Yes. You know, these family background stories, I can't say that I have like, definitive answers on. I know that they're in the history book that Cathy (Strack) wrote and Javier's book, the biography , but I’m a little foggy on it. I think that he had — well, I know he had — at least two kids. Maybe one more. I don't know because he had his two wives, and then they had kids, so they were like, the step kids, or adopted kids. So I get a little confused there, but he did have children, you know, in his life.

Tracy:

Where’s the best place to go for that kind of background information if people want to learn more about his personal history?

Elaine:

I know Cathy (Strack) is writing a book. She’s in the process of writing a book, now, about Joe.

Tracy:

So we talked about the kids, how many children he had. So this is a common question, especially right now with coronavirus:

Was it true that none of the POWs that Joseph pilates was training at the POW camp got the flu during the 1918 flu pandemic?

Elaine:

I don’t know if none of them got the flu, but, as far as I know none of them died from the flu. And, you know, part of that is because it was on an island, so they really didn't have that many cases of the flu there. They were actually pretty isolated. That was something that he said throughout the years, all the time. He said that. He wasn't lying, you know, that none of them died from the flu. But, necessarily, did it actually hit the camp? Not really.

Tracy:

That's an interesting distinction, yeah.

Did Joseph pilates say that the mouth was for kissing and for eating? Meaning only use the nose for breathing?

Elaine:

I have not heard that line.

Tracy:

I've heard it attributed to Romana (Krysanowska)

Elaine:

I have not heard that he said that. But, I think the answer to your question, I mean, you think about, you know, how would you then explain the Breath-A-Cizer?

Tracy:

Yeah. Oh, that's a great point.

Elaine:

He also had another thing called the “Air-o-Mill” that was like, a tube that with a little mouthpiece and like a rubber hose that went to this like, pinwheel. So he had a second apparatus, as well, for breathing, and that was through your mouth. So, there's really no reason to believe that he would say you shouldn't exhale through your mouth if you had two apparatuses based on exhaling through your mouth.

Tracy:

That's a good point.

Elaine:

And we know that he used them because there's a good number of pictures and film of people using them in the studio.

Tracy:

Did joe pilates and Martha Graham work together? Was Martha one of Joe's clients, and did she send Ron Fletcher to Joe with a knee injury?

Elaine:

You mean as far as work together? Like, do work together?

Tracy:

So, yeah, so they want to know, “did they know each other? Did he teach her Pilates? Did they have a relationship?”

Elaine:

I don’t know. I know they were aware of each other because as far as I know she did send Ron Fletcher to Joe. But I don't know that she went to the studio for lessons. I don't know that. I mean, I’m sure she was aware of him, anyway. Well, obviously because she sent someone to him. But, just through the dance world and probably through many mutual acquaintances.

Tracy:

Who came up with the term powerhouse?

Elaine:

I don't think it was Joe himself. There's no documentation of him ever having used it. It's not in any interview. It's not in anything he wrote. I think that that came into the scene, like I don't know when, you know. I don’t know that he used it.

Tracy:

Did he use another term for what we know today as the powerhouse?

Elaine:

In things that I've read, interviews with him, he just said basically “pull your abdominals in.”

Tracy:

Did he did he ever talk about glutes in a certain way, or the inner thighs? Or use any terminology?

Elaine:

Not that Iknow of. The only thing that I do know is that … on the reformer charts, and some of the terms for the exercise names, he did actually use, like, muscle names, like biceps, triceps. Like in the rowing series, he used that. He called the names of the exercises “biceps,” “triceps.” We know he had anatomical posters in the studio, but I don't know that he like, discussed anatomy with other people during their lessons. I don’t know.

Tracy:

What is the “two powerhouses”

Elaine:

The two powerhouses. That's a phrase that Sean Gallagher coined. It’s basically referring to not only your lower abdominals, glutes, lower back, inner thighs, that we talk about as the powerhouse, but it's also your upper body. So it would be your shoulder girdle, and your your stability up there.

Tracy:

Who created — this is another question that came in actually a few times — who created the “list” of classical exercises, and did joe use a fixed routine for everyone who came into the studio?

Elaine:

Okay. So what is “the list?”

Tracy:

Like, the list of exercises. So, the “order.”

Elaine:

So the only thing is that everyone has a different order. He had an order, yea. He did multiple photo shoots throughout his lifetime on his apparatuses. So, he did. Because we, we're pretty familiar, you know, with the Reformer series, right? There’s the mat and there's the Reformer. Well he actually did that with a number of his pieces of equipment like the Wunda Chair, the Spine Corrector. He did different photo shoots over the years, and he did basically the same order every single time.

Tracy:

So the order that he gave us to use is the same order that he would use with the clients? I guess their question was more about, like, did he have a fixed routine? So did he actually use that, or did he just put that in the books for people?

Elaine:

From what I know, he put the pictures up on the walls, right? The order. So that you could go up and refer to the pictures. So that you would know what to do. And that when everybody came in for their their workout — because it wasn't a private session — it was like a gym, right? You'd go workout, and they would take their card and on their card it would have all the names of the exercises and would be checked off as to what their routine was.

But I think that he did like, a couple sessions with people in the beginning, and then this is going to be, like, your routine.

And you know, the order's there and this is what you're going to do, and then as you get better and better the teachers who are walking the room are going to add to your order so that you gain your repertoire that way. So yes, he had the order. Did you walk in and like, everybody did like, the exact same order, the exact same way? I don’t think so.

Tracy:

I think that's what they're asking.

Elaine:

I know that he documented the order, right? He documented, he filmed and took pictures of the order being done in the order, so that was, I would have to guess, the goal. That would be just like how we teach now, right? To be able to do the whole order. But just like how we teach now, you know, you would never have like, all of your clients come in and do the exact same, every single thing in the order, right? So it's similar to what we do now.

Tracy:

So he would have the pictures for people so that they could kind of follow. Would he actually, himself … do you know, you know we've heard stories about, you know people coming in and him giving them really specific (things to do) even just telling them to stand for a while and learn how to stand properly first?

Did he teach what we would call now “pre-pilates” ever?

Or like, what do you know about that?

Elaine:

Not that I know of. For example, I don't know if you've ever seen, there's a film that’s on YouTube (below), but it’s like, he's teaching a guy on the Reformer, and the guy has like, a really stiff back. He can't even basically flex his spine, and he teaches him the Reformer. He actually teaches him the order and he has him do basically everything, and even Short Spine.

Like, this guy's lifting up and his spine is not bending. But Joe's like, you know, using his hands-on, he's basically taking him through the order.

Yeah, so you know that's something that we would use as reference to then say, it's unlikely that he would do like a series of pre-Pilates exercises based on what we've seen … how he addresses people like that. He has them do Pilates. I mean, there really is no “pre-Pilates” when you’re “Joseph Pilates,” right? It's like, you just come there and you do Pilates because you're with Pilates!

Tracy:

Well, that actually is a good transition to the next question.

Did he really push down as hard on the body as the videos we currently see?

We've seen some of, Rowing is one of the ones where people see him pushing down — oh no, it's a Boomerang — he's doing Boomerang. And there's one where he's like, pushing down on the person. You're like, “Ahh, don't touch them so hard!”

Was that ‘a thing’ with him?

Elaine:

So there's a few points about that.

So one is you have to think about what is the context in which the film was filmed, right? So a lot of times it was to present as like a demonstration either to people so they knew what Pilates was, or to maybe the medical community, so that they could see what he did. Because he was trying to get in with them. So he was exaggerating a lot of it. Because he wanted to, I guess overemphasize like, you know, like this is what I do. This is what happens. This is how they change. Right? Because he wants to show that people change through Controlology (the name Joseph Pilates gave his method before it became known as “Pilates” after his death.) Not that they just move around, right.

The other part of it is that, you know, you're watching like, a really old film. So you don't really know, is it exactly as it was in real life, at the time? It could be a little bit speeded up, or a little bit just different, because it's really old.

The other thing is, if you think about when you do hands-on with people, right? It's not like you're gonna go in and barely touch them. You really actually have to use your powerhouse and basically put your powerhouse energy into your hands-on exercise, right, so that they meet you with their powerhouse. Because we say a lot is “powerhouse to powerhouse” — it's how you cue and that's what he's doing. You know? He has to use his own force so that they can meet back at it. You can tell, you know, that they are meeting him with their energy back, because they're not collapsing to the floor because he's overpowering them.

So I think that would be better, really. Think about the context rather than just sort of looking at it and assuming something about it.

Tracy:

Okay it's a good point.

What was the “back room” at Joe's studio?

So they say, “When I've heard it mentioned it sounded like it was more for rehab, pre-pilates-type work. What type of apparatuses did he have in there? Why was it separate from the rest of the studio?

Elaine:

Okay, well the “back room” was Joe's apartment, right? So that's why it was separate. Okay. And what we know that he had was a Bednasium (see video above) back there. He may have had other things, too, but we know there was a Bednasium. It was, you know, rehab basically, or one-on-one work basically. He had his library, which was like, a huge amount of books so he had you know all his reference material as well.

Tracy:

Ok. Oh, this is a fun one. I think this is the first time I heard this.

Did he actually pull a gun on a rival studio owner?

Okay, well that only Joe and Bob Seed know that it's true or not , but he did say that he did that. As far as I know, the story was that Bob Seed was a teacher at the studio and they had a falling out, he left. Bob Seed left and opened his own studio not far away. And I think part of the story is that he also took a barrel with him. So Joe then left to go get the barrel back and basically chased him out of town.

Tracy:

Oh wow, okay.

Elaine:

So he came back, and I think, from what I know, he comes back and he says you know, “I showed up with a gun and chased him out of town.” So we don't know if that's true. I mean, I don't think that it's actually true because I think that Bob Seed actually continued to teach in the City and was a Pilates teacher in the City, so it's not like he like vacated and like you know, never was seen again, right? So, it could have been, you know, like they talked, when he came back. But one thing we do know is that Joe did own a gun. You know, there's a chance that he did do that. But Bob Seed didn't leave town after that.

Tracy:

How do we know that joe did own a gun?

Elaine:

Because he has his house in Beckett that Sean owns. There was a newspaper, like the police blotter, that's in the local newspapers, and it was a form that Joe had filled out that he was robbed and that what they stole was alcohol and a gun. So he owned a gun.

Tracy:

Oh, wow, yeah. Okay. Alright, there we go.

Elaine:

You know, he could have pulled it on Bob Seed, but we don't know.

Tracy:

Okay. Apparatuses!

Which apparatus did Joe invent first?

Elaine:

Well i'm not sure which apparatus he invented first, but I know that he first patented the Foot Corrector. That was his first patent. I would have to assume that he invented it first, because you probably patent the first thing that you invent, but maybe not. He could have been developing things at the same time. I mean I know the Reformer comes from way back then as well, but it wasn't first patented.

Tracy:

The Cadillac trapeze bar: What are the two middle eye hooks used for?

Elaine:

So if you think about where the Cadillac developed from, right, it was a bed that he rigged up. The top part over the bed and like put all his stuff …

Tracy:

So that is a true story that the Cadillac came from a bed? Was it a hospital bed?

Elaine:

It wasn’t a hospital bed, or a prison bed. I'm not saying he took the springs off the mattress and like then made this Cadillac with them. I mean like a real bed. Like while he was here in the U.S.

Tracy:

But it wasn’t true, that story about him using it to rehab the the people who were … there are different stories going around about it, but one was that he was rehabbing POWs while he was at the Isle of Man. And he took the springs and made that into the springs of the Cadillac … that’s not true?

Elaine:

I wouldn't say that's true because if you think about it … a lot of times when you're thinking historically, you have to think outside of your own perception. Right? So we think, “Oh, that's an amazing story!” But then if you really look at history, you'll see that there were not springs on the beds. Right? Why would there be springs on the bed in an internment camp? They’re going to give everybody springs on their bed? It's going to be like a cot. And it was. Okay. So it's like, you know a lot of times throughout history — not just pilates history, just in history — there's the story that is way better than the true story. These things get passed on because they just sound so great!

Tracy:

Yeah, they do.

Elaine:

And it's like, you know, you can tell your clients during their class, and they're like “Whoa! That's so amazing! This is so much an amazing method!” Right? But, you know, that's, it still is an amazing method, but a lot of these things, they're not true.

Tracy:

But it did come from a bed? The Cadillac?

Elaine:

So he had a bed, and he built apparatus around the bed. He used the bed as the mat and across the top, right, if you think about the width of a bed, it's wider than the Cadillac. So across the top he has his trapeze bar and he had the two inside hooks, and the two outside hooks. On the two inside hooks he hung the trapeze bar, and on the two outside hooks he hung like something similar to like rings that you would use to pull yourself up. So the original bar with the hooks, it's actually the two inside hooks that the trapeze bar was on.

Tracy:

Well now I want the rings!

Elaine:

I know!

Tracy:

Why can’t we have the rings? Gratz? Are you on here Gratz? Pilates Design? Where are ya?

Elaine:

So now it is narrower and we put the trapeze bar on the two outside rings. But what Joe did on, you know the more modern Cadillac, like what we have in our studios, is he would put the leg spring above and he had some certain exercises that you would use like one leg spring at a time and do leg work that way?

Tracy:

From the trapeze bar?

Elaine:

From the two inside hooks

Tracy:

Ok. Cool. I always wondered about that, too. Do people use them now? Do you use them now for anything? The middle hook?

Elaine:

I don't. I have seen people use them, but I don't know what they're basing that on. I think they just either they learned something from someone or they came up with an idea to use them. But I don't think they're doing it because of something they know that Joe did with them.

Tracy:

Gotcha. Ok. So lots more apparatus questions. This is another one that we got a lot of questions about: the Magic Circle and the story of the beer barrel.

Was it a beer barrel? Was it a whiskey barrel? What is the deal with the Magic Circle?

Let's clear this up once and for all! Tell us what story we should be telling everybody! Let's all get this together! Let's all get on the same page here.

Elaine:

It's a great story! It's a great story, you know, again. You have to look outside of what you think. So there was an apparatus before the Magic Circle and before Joe that consisted of metal bands. It was straight — I actually have one — but it was straight across and had two handles on each side and it was like four or so metal bands just like a Magic Circle. And you could bend it and do very very similar movements that you would do with the Magic Circle. It even had a chart. So there was something out there. Maybe it inspired him, right? I don't know. But maybe he saw the the metal strapping around one of his barrels and took it off and was like, “Oh yeah, I can make something like that.” Maybe. I don't know.

But what we do know is if you look at Magic Circles in his studio and pictures, they're obviously very nice looking. So it's not like he actually used a Magic Circle made from like recycled metal strapping? You don't see, like, holes and bent metal, and like, all the stuff that you would see if you ripped off the metal strapping off of a beer barrel, right? So maybe he made a prototype. I don't know for sure. But there's a chance that that's somehow in the history of it.

But you know, the greater story is that there was something similar and similarly made before him. And after he did make them, they looked beautiful, so he didn't use that strapping to make Magic Circles.

Tracy:

Okay so the one that you have … that is a sample of the one that was made before he made his Magic Circle?

Elaine:

Yeah, I have this thing I bought, like, just for historical nerd reasons that somebody was selling. I actually can't remember the dates, but it's very old and it’s metal. I actually can't remember the name of it either. But I have it, like, in my back room. I guess you could say it's pre-Magic Circle, but I don't know if Joe was aware of it. I mean, he probably was at least a little because it was fairly popular back then, with the physical culturalists.

Tracy:

So can we can you give a picture of that?

Elaine:

Yea, this is my suggestion that it possibly influenced him, but, it's not like it's documented or there’s something saying that he got his idea from this thing. But it is interesting that there was something similar and that you would use it in similar ways. So it is a possibility.

Tracy:

People have also said that the barrels or kegs actually became the small barrel. Is there any truth to that?

Elaine:

I’m gonna give you a little teaser for Pilates at the Pillow. So we have a Pilates at the Pillow, “The New Science And Lost Art of Joe's Corrective Work.” It’s based on the Small Barrel and the Spine Corrector. We were supposed to have that this past April and then we switched it to September because of the pandemic. Now we actually switched September to April 2021. So it's too bad it's so far away, but in part of our presentation on the history of the barrel we do have our big reveal of the origins of the Small Barrel and it does not appear to be from a barrel.

Tracy:

What!? (Thumbs down) No, i'm just kidding. It’s good to know the truth.

Elaine:

You know, the research that goes into all this stuff … that's part of the the fun of actually attending the Pillow. You’re the first to learn some of this stuff. So we are saving it for that event. Unfortunately, we've had to postpone it twice, but it'll be there in April 2021.

Tracy:

God willing.

Elaine.

Yeah, I know.

Tracy.

Yea, we are in the same kind of position because I'm in Miami where it's still bad, and you're in New York where it’s still bad (coronavirus). At least we're a little bit more open right now than I think you guys are.

Elaine:

Well, New York is totally open except for Pilates studios.

Tracy:

Wow.

Elaine:

Studios and movie theaters as far as I know, entertainment venues are closed. Well not just Pilates studios but (all) fitness studios.

Tracy:

They opened ours, like, right away.

Elaine:

It’s just me myself and I in here.

Tracy:

But you're doing an amazing job of keeping things moving during this pandemic. I really admire everything that … you've been very creative and keeping people moving.

Elaine:

Thank you.

Tracy:

So we're coming up on 45 minutes, but let's try to get through a few more of these questions.

Do you know when and by who risers were added to reformers?

So they say “Why were risers added to reformers and for what purpose? If an elder originally did it, why are they only on contemporary equipment now versus classical pieces?”

Elaine:

It is a great question, but there's a lot of answers to it. So again, you have to go back as far as possible, right? When you want to know the answer to something. And if you go back as far as possible, you're gonna think, okay, like what were the first reformers? And we know what Joe's looked like, right, because there's pictures of his studio. But if you actually look toward Carola Trier and Robert Fitzgerald, who had studios at the same time as Joe, you'll see their reformers had the wheels raised up, I would say it appears like four to five inches above the frame of the reformer. So you would then say that would be the first riser. It's not like a crazy tall riser like a lot of people have today, but the wheel has been risen right above the frame. So then you think, well, “why was it up there?” You have to look at the carriage which was also lifted above the frame. So it's relative to the carriage. It's not like, “let’s let's pull the wheel up as high as possible, right? It has to also do with everything else about it. There's a design there. So the carriage itself was also raised up. You know, why were those two things raised up compared to what Joe had in his studio? I don't know. But, actually, Joe's plaque is on Carola’s reformer which would insinuate that he made it. And you know, is that true? I don't know, you know. Did she take a plaque from him and like, put it on a reformer? (laughing) I don't know! You know, I don't know why he made a different reformer for her or why she had a reformer that looked different with his plaque on it. But if you look back that would be the first instance, right, where you see reformers like that.

So why do we not use those reformers in classical Pilates?

Well, because where does classical Pilates come from? It comes from Joe's studio, right? So what equipment did he have? He didn't have those reformers in his studio.

Tracy:

Do you have a picture of Carola’s reformer?

Elaine:

I do have a picture of it … I forget where … I think it's on “The pilates guy,” on his website. (It was! see below) I think he has a number of pictures of that reformer. I think he has a number of pictures of that reformer because I think he like, came across it once when he was working on somebody's reformer or something. It’s privately owned. I don’t know who owns it. Because she had more than one reformer in her studio, but he had a picture of that.

Go to The Pilates Guy to see the photos:

Elaine:

So, would be why we don't use it in classical Pilates. Because it wasn't in Joe's studio, and we don't use apparatus in classical Pilates that wasn't from his studio. We don't use anything that wasn't from his studio. So that’s why.

Tracy:

Ok. So somebody says, and we talked a little bit about this before, but they say, “I've heard many people comment that classical exercises are seen as flexion biased, hence, not suited for the modern day. I'm classically influenced and can attest to the fact that it's not. Rather, its focus is on restoring tall shape. How else would you respond if someone makes such comments?

Did Joe ever talk about or explain the flexion in his exercises?

Elaine:

Well we know that what Joe talked about was everything that you do, every exercise you do, you want to then do an exercise that does the opposite. He didn't use the words “flexion” “extension,” but he was basically saying, you know, like if you're gonna do a flexion exercise then you're gonna do an extension exercise. That's what he wrote, and if you actually look at the order, it does, you know … if you think about it “the order,” right? — if you want to know, “What did Joe teach?” — the order is not broken down to beginner, intermediate, advanced, like how we teach today, right? So if we teach today, beginner, it's going to be a lot of flexion because that's the basis of strength for the rest of the planes of motion. Okay. So we're kind of breaking it down more specifically, right? Because we're teaching privates and things like that. Joe really didn't teach a lot of flexion at first. He would give you exercises, like we talked about, you know and give you your, your card.

As far as, you know, “is classical Pilates flexion-based?” No, of course not. I mean, just look at all the different positions that we do throughout the method on all the different pieces of equipment. You know, so I mean if anybody really says that it's flexion-based I would just probably say that they actually just aren't familiar with classical Pilates.

Tracy:

Yeah. This is a question I've never thought of, but I'm really interested to hear you have to say about it.

“Is there any proof or knowledge that Joe Pilates did yoga or met a yogi?”

(The question continues) “Did he read ancient yoga scripts? Is there any kind of background to his relationship with yoga? What is the connection? The first yogi from India apparently went to the U.S. in the 20s. Was there a connection? I often wonder if Joe learned yoga, and if so, from who? Or if he taught Contrology to a yogi. How was he influenced?”

Elaine:

Well, we don't know, specifically, if he was aware of yoga, or if he practiced it. He doesn't mention it, you know in any of his advertisements or writings or discussions on this method. He mentions other things like martial arts and self-defense. He mentions those things, he doesn't mention anything having to do with yoga in any way. But if you look at his earlier photos and sequences they do have like, a yogic feel. So it's possible that he was exposed to yoga. He just never alluded to that.

There’s no there's no proof of that. If you look at you know … Like I was saying, he had his library, which was like an insane amount of books. So he was obviously very well read. Maybe he did know about it. There’s a chance that he did. He seemed to be in the know. But as far as specifically relating his method to it, there's no documentation of that. Do you have any notes, any yoga books? Not that I know. But there could have been. I don’t know. That library of books from from his studio, from the back room, right, is like gone.

Where is that?

Tracy:

Where is it?

Elaine:

Yeah, what were those books? I don't know where.

Tracy:

Where is it? Do we know where it is?

Elaine:

No, we don't. Sean has his library from the property in Beckett, which is extensive, but not like that. That's like, an entire wall from floor to ceiling of books.

Tracy:

That would be interesting to know.

Elaine:

Yeah, it would.

Tracy:

Bummer.

Elaine:

Yeah.

Tracy:

Okay so he never addressed, I mean … now we get the question all the time, “Oh, Pilates that's like yoga, right?” You know, as teachers we're constantly having to explain, “No, no, no. Pilates is not yoga. That whole thing.

So somebody asked … somebody asked um “did Joe ever address how Pilates differed from yoga,” but I'm assuming since yoga never came up that the answer for that is “no.”

Elaine:

Yeah.

Tracy:

“Where did Joe publish the statement “Change happens through movement and movement heals.”

It does not appear in either Return to Life or Your Health.” And this person says they've asked but they've never gotten an answer from different people. Do you know about that?

Elaine:

I don't think that. As far as I know, it is not published anywhere and that would then lead me to say that Joe did not say it. Although, like I said before, things are discovered pretty frequently, so maybe we'll discover that he did say. But at this point in time, there's no publication or proof that he said that or wrote that at all.

Tracy:

Where did the quote “In 10 sessions you’ll feel a difference, in 20 sessions you’ll see a difference and in 30 sessions you will have a whole new body” come from?

Elaine:

That I don't know. I know that it's from, what I've heard, Romana (Kryzanowska) said that Joe said that. It's not written in anything or advertised or used in anything that he documented. He did do things like, he would use different numbers … he would show ‘before, during, and after’ .... Like ‘12 weeks, 24 weeks, 36 weeks’ and he would show people … but there's no like, that specific quote isn't documented by him anywhere.

Tracy:

Okay. So we went a little bit over here. I think we got through most of them.

Somebody asked about your thoughts on Caged Lion. Have you read Caged Lion?

Elaine:

Yes.

Tracy:

Anything that you want to share about that? They just asked what were your thoughts on it. If you read it or not.

Elaine:

Okay. It struck me as a bit biased towards a certain type of Pilates and certain equipment. I found it to be opinionated. But, you know, if you think about historical research, right, like when Sean and I design our workshops at the Pillow and any kind of historical workshop or presentation, what we use is primary source information. So that would be official things right? Documentation, photos, film … you know, that type of thing. And it's not just us. That's what anybody does who researches anything … Anyone who's doing legit research, right? Primary source information is always the best. Secondary source information would be interviews and recollections, memories. So that's not to say that these things aren't, there's no validity to them?

Tracy:

Right. It's just different.

Elaine:

Of course there is! Right? These people were there! They have their memories. They recall things and they say this happened, that happened. But, you know, if you're really gonna look for like, true history, you really do want to rely on primary source information for that because it's provable.

Tracy:

Okay. Yeah, no, that's a good point. I talked to somebody about this before, and like what we were going to be talking about. And I was explaining the reason that I chose you for this, was because it wasn't a personal, you know, your relationship with him, personally, or with somebody personally. It was because you were, you know, going back to research and the archives and the history of it … Which is why I wanted to do this particular program with you. It's it's not one is better than the other. It is different. You know, this is a different thing we're talking about history.

Elaine:

You can't discount … you can't discount people's memories, right?

Tracy:

Yeah, those are important stories to tell.

Elaine:

You can’t discount what they say, right? Because otherwise there would be no such thing as an interview, right? I mean, you interview people because you want to know what happened, right? But at the same time, you have to put it into context. Is it definitely what happened? No, it’s never definitely.

Tracy:

Right. It’s an interpretation.

Elaine:

Exactly. You have to take it for that.

Tracy:

Right. I am with you. Okay, so let's see. Last question.

What can someone do who wants to learn more about the history of Pilates do? Any specific resources that you recommend? Where can we look?

Elaine:

Of course the best thing you can do is to attend a Pilates at the Pillow. We do so much. It's not just present historical information, right? Which is always before presented information on whatever subject we're doing, but you're also, you know, at Jacob's Pillow, so there's a lot of archival documentation of Joe there that belongs to the Pillow and also to Sean because he has it on loan there. We also bring you on a tour of Joe's property in the studio and his apparatus is there and all his stuff is there and there's a lot of pictures. So it's like amazing, you know. There's a lot of Pilates history throughout that whole weekend.

And then if you want to do some reading on your own, I would say Javier's book, the biography (below), is a great resource for information.

Cathy Strack's book on Romana (below) is a great resource for classical Pilates information which includes Joe Pilates history.

Sean and I present historical webinars. We have been presenting them once a month to raise money for the Pillow. We usually present a lot of information during those as well, like slideshows and stuff.

Tracy:

Is it is it possible for people to study the archives? Does that ever open up, for just, you know, students to look at?

Elaine:

The best way to study the archives is, to come to Pilates at the Pillow. We present a lot of … I would say every single time that we've been there, Sean has included a presentation of what's from the archives on that apparatus that's never been presented before at a conference.

Tracy:

Have you guys ever thought about digitizing the archives at some point? I know you're doing a museum of the space there. Will that ever be like, a library resource for people?

Elaine:

Sean put out the Joseph H pilates archive book (below), he put that out in, I think it was in 2000. That’s book that he published that has all the archival, all those archival pictures in it. I know he's planning on digitizing those pictures and making them available for purchase. And he does have an Etsy store. So he has available, reformer picture sets and a lot of Joe's charts and pictures like that on there, too.

And, you know everything else belongs to him, so that's his, you know, choice as to what he does with that as he goes.

Tracy:

Well I'm gonna have to go to a Pilates at the Pillow. I've been meaning to do it so hopefully, hopefully it'll actually, you know … this virus will go away and we'll be able to be normal people again and do fun things.

Elaine:

I hope so. The one that we're going to be doing in April 2021 is going to be our last one until further notice.

Tracy:

… And that is a wrap. Sorry for going a little over. Elaine, thank you so, so, so much for doing this. We really appreciate your generosity with your time and knowledge.

Elaine:

I really appreciate you asking me to come, so thank you, too.

Tracy:

And thank you guys, everybody who attended, and listened to our little program here. Have a great night everybody.

Elaine:

Thank you.

ABOUT ELAINE EWING

Through her work with Sean Gallagher at The Pilates Source™, she has completed extensive archival research.

The Pilates Source™ is a program by Sean Gallagher and Elaine Ewing, the owner of Joseph Pilates’ original studio business and Becket Massachusetts studio and property, which hosts workshops digging deep into the roots of Contrology (Joseph Pilates’ original name for what we know today as “Pilates.”)

Through her work with The Pilates Source™, Elaine has played a major role in restoring Joseph Pilates’ original studio in Becket, MA, where he taught and developed his work., into a working studio and museum. Elaine also teaches at Pilates at the Pillow™ , a series of conferences that invites Pilates teachers from around the world to experience lost apparatuses, reproduced exclusively for the conferences using Joe's original apparatus, original blue prints, archival photographs, film, writings, and drawings. There, she teaches archival exercises using Joe's original words and cue's for each exercise, often revealing never-before-known information to pilates teachers.

Elaine is a certified Authentic Pilates teacher through the New York Pilates Studio®. She owns and teaches at her studio, Rhinebeck Pilates, in Rhinebeck, NY as well as teaches at The New York Pilates Studio®. She owns 7 pieces of apparatus original to Joseph Pilates and his New York City Studio, which are currently displayed and in use at Rhinebeck Pilates. She has studied and practiced pilates extensively through workshops and classes taught by teachers such as Sean Gallagher, Pam Pardi, MeJo Wiggin, Steve Giordano, Bob Liekens, Leah Chaback Katz, Simona Cipriani, and Junghee Won, to name a few.

Elaine can be found on Pilatesology teaching “Archival Ped-o-Pul”, “The Resister™”, and “Joe’s 4 Original Airplane Boards”, as well as conducting an interview with Sean Gallagher on the making of his archival pilates book, “The Joseph H. Pilates Archive Collection”. She has also taught pilates to the performers in Cirque du Soleil, "Paramour", at The New York Pilates Studio® in NYC, from 2016 until the show closed in 2017.

Elaine also helps manage the Pilates Guild™ with Sean Gallagher, and assists in running online sales of archival posters and studio art with Sean. The Pilates Guild® is an international membership organization that supports and promotes Pilates Guild® Certified Teachers and the pilates method as Joseph Pilates intended.